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Spirit, Church, & Last Things

Instructor: Dr. Robert Peterson

Audio Transcription for Lesson 18: Doctrine of the Church: Attributes, I

After the last lesson I was reminded to mention a tool to you. There are a number of tools of this type. Here is one of them, and it is a good one: Millard Erickson's Concise Dictionary of Christian Theology. You probably heard me mention his Christian Theology, his systematic theology textbook, as a good, up-to-date, believing textbook. This is a dictionary of Christian theology that would answer many of the things that you ask. It gives some definitions of christocentric, household baptism, Richard Hooker, Salvation Army, Socinianism, and on and on we go. The best thing to do is to go to the library with this, or any other tool, and try it. I have found it somewhat helpful.

We are studying the doctrine of the church. Our task tonight is to study the attributes of the church, to talk about ecclesiastical separation, and then to get into the church's service as well. We are following a definite order and not the modern order, I might add. The documents coming from the official study commissions of the World Counsel of Churches (WCC) would regard what I am doing as very much a dinosaur, because we are spending a lot of time dealing with what the church is. No WCC documents would tell us what the church should be doing. They are currently advocating revolution and theologies of revolution in order to promote that. We would strongly disagree. We are interested in what the church should do. That is why our concern for the church is service, for example. But first, we want to know what the church is. Last week we looked at the nature of the church in terms of both biblical pictures and historical theology. Then we discussed the marks of the church, those identifying marks that enable us to distinguish the true church from the false. We said there are three: the pure preaching of the Word, the proper administration of the ordinances or sacraments, and then the faithful exercise of church discipline.

We are on page 42 and we are discussing the attributes of the church. Do you remember the Constantinopolitan Creed where it said, "We believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church"? This is on the very last lines on page 35. We now lift out those four adjectives -- one, holy, catholic, and apostolic -- and we do a little adjustment and turn them into nouns. Here are the qualities of the Christian church: unity, sanctity or holiness, catholicity, and apostolicity. Let us take these one at a time because they really are very important for us to understand.

The first quality of the Christian church is unity. John 17 and Ephesians 4 keep recurring as we think about the church. These are sections of Scripture in which the topic is the church. That is better than hitting places that merely incidentally mention our topic. The best places to go to are those that speak of the church, or whatever topic we are studying, in an extended context. So it is in John 17 and Ephesians 4.

In John 17:20-23 Jesus prays, "My prayer is not for them [the 11 disciples] alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their word" -- the NIV correctly renders it "message." It is the preached Word, especially, that is in view -- "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity." The prayer for unity occurs again and again. "May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." Again and again, Jesus prays for the unity of the Christian church. He envisions the church. It is not too strong to use that expression. Although He is talking about His 11 disciples who are with Him, He certainly envisions the church. In verse 20 He prays for those who will believe through the ministry of His apostles. He does not pray just for those 11 but for "those who will believe in Christ through their message." He prays that they might be one, and here is the tremendous point of comparison. Verse 21 says, "...just as you are in me and I am in you." He compares the mutual indwelling of Father and Son. He compares the unity of the church to that mutual indwelling: "May they also be in us."

Last time we said that baptism is into the threefold name and it communicates a relationship. It is baptism into a relationship with the Trinity. So the concept here of the church's unity is based on union with Christ. We are joined to the Lord Jesus Christ in salvation, and because of that we are one with every other person joined to the Lord Jesus Christ in salvation: "May they also be in us" -- and here is the purpose for this prayer -- "that the world may believe that you have sent me."

Here, Jesus prays that it is not even just union with Christ. Union with Christ is necessarily union with the Trinity because Jesus is the mediator. When we are joined to Him we are joined to the Father and the Holy Spirit as well. This is often the case, especially in John's Gospel. The Spirit is omitted, but certainly He would be implied. "May these future believers also be in you and me, Father," -- is the prayer -- "so that the world may believe that you have sent me." The successful witness of the apostles is based on the Son of God completing His mission -- not only in the Cross and resurrection but also by sending His Spirit and bringing His disciples into union with Him and with the other members of the Godhead.

Verse 22 is an amazing verse. We most often think of glorification as future, and that is true. But there is an already realized aspect to glorification so that Jesus could say, amazingly, "I have given them the glory that you gave me." That is incredible! That encourages us because (as we read the story line in the Gospel of John or in all four Gospels) they flounder, stumble, and fall down, and He picks them up again. But here He could say, as a matter of fact He also says, that they glorified Him. That is remarkable.

Earlier, in John 17:10 Jesus said, "Glory has come to me through them." You read the whole account, and all I can say to that is, "Praise the Lord!" He receives our little service too -- our service mixed with truth and error, faithfulness and unfaithfulness, holiness and sin. That is the way theirs was. They were really stumbling. They had, at least, more excuses than we do. Theirs was before the death and resurrection. They were still groping to understand who He was. It was not until His resurrection that Thomas made the confession, "My Lord and my God." How does our service compare to theirs? Let us not do that, but there is encouragement for us. If Jesus could be glorified in those bunglers, then He is glorified in us, too, to the glory of His grace. Verse 10 says, "Glory has come to me through them." Then He said, "I have given them the glory that you gave me." Praise to the Father. Here is the purpose of it: "that they may be one as we are one." The unity of the church is likened to the unity of the Trinity. We do not measure up. We are in sad shape. Nevertheless, we need to hear the Word of God and cultivate that kind of attitude in our hearts. We cannot all join the same denomination. That is not necessary. We can have our own distinctives, but this certainly has implications for the way you and I regard other Christians, no matter what their strike. If they know Christ, we are one with each other. That should function in our prayers and in our lives.

I am getting into application now, but I want to wait for that. Jesus said, "...that they may be one as we are one." He explains in verse 23: "I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity." And here is the reason why again: "to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." We are to demonstrate a practical unity with other believers in Christ, not seeing people from different denominations, backgrounds or with different theologies as rivals. If we can truly rejoice when the church down the street is winning people to the Lord (even if we are struggling in that regard) and if unsaved people hear of that rejoicing, then the world will know that the Son of God has come, He has been sent by the Father, and that God loves sinners. It is remarkable. For years I have thought we needed to ask for less of the spectacular and just seek to simply be faithful. The Lord will honor the faithful witness of His children. Church unity is plainly taught here. It is a beautiful notion, and it has many practical ramifications, a few of which we will talk about in a moment. But we better move on to Ephesians 4 as we think about the unity of the church.

This is a great passage because these great objective unities of the church, things that nobody can touch or change (in verses 4-6) are surrounded by verses containing Paul's concerns for subjective unity in the church. I love it. Let us look at the seven objective unities of the church.

Ephesians 4:4 says, "There is one body..." This means body of Christ; there is one church. We have broken it all up into different parts, but there is one in God's sight. Again, you have the right to choose your own denomination. You have the right and responsibility to have your children raised under some teaching, but by the same token, the unity of the church should function in our thinking, speaking, and living -- "There is one body [of Christ] and one Spirit -- just as you were called to one hope [of heaven] when you were called. There is one Lord [Lord Jesus Christ]. There is one faith." Does it mean the body of belief, the Christian truth? I do not think so. I think it means one saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Following that, there is "one baptism" -- this might surprise you, but I believe it speaks of water baptism. You may think there is one, but churches do it in terms of different ages of the people being baptized and with different modes. I would challenge you, since the Bible says that there is one baptism, to receive the baptism of other believers in Christ in their churches. If it is done in the name of the Trinity with water by a minister of the Gospel, then I would regard it as a valid Christian baptism. Here, the Bible says, there is one of those. You say, "Why is it not Spirit baptism? It is not because it follows one Lord Jesus Christ, one faith in Him. It has it in the book of Acts. Faith and baptism are often joined. Going back to the verse, there is "one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." Do you understand how these are seven objective unities?

If you and I have a bad day, week, month, or even year, we do not change the fact that there is one Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is one Christian church, one hope of eternal life, one faith in Christ, and one Christian baptism. Those things are settled forever, are they not? We cannot touch them. Our poor performance does not cause the Trinity to come crashing down. Now, notice how Paul frames these great objective unities with calls for living out practical unity among his hearers. Ephesians 4:1 says, "As a prisoner for the Lord then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle. Be patient bearing with one another in love. Make every effort" -- be diligent and work hard to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. It is a command. It commands his hearers, the believers at Ephesus and the other churches at Asia Minor to which this circular letter went -- "to keep the oneness of the spirit through the bond of peace." The meaning is plain: be a peacemaker. Make your life count for peace and unity among the brothers and sisters. Then, he gives the foundation again in verses 4-7 for the seven unities: one body, one Spirit, one hope, Lord, faith, baptism, and God the Father. Verse 7 speaks of diversity: "But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ appointed it." Verse 11 speaks of the ascended Christ. By the way, the descent and accent here is not a descent into hell. It is a descent, which is the exact opposite of the ascent. The ascent is from earth to heaven. It is the ascension. The descent is just the opposite. It is from heaven to earth. It is a cycle. John has the same cycle: descent followed by ascent.

Verse 11 says, "It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up." The risen, exalted, glorified Christ is pictured as giving gifts to His church. Here, the gifts are gifted men who prepare the saints to do the work of the ministry. And here are the results of that work of the ministry: "so that the body of Christ may be built up," -- edification is one result -- "until we all reach," -- here it is again -- "unity in the faith and in the knowledge in the Son of God and become mature," verse 13. So, edification, unity, and maturity are the results that will follow attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. "Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him, who is the head, that is Christ" -- there is maturity again -- "from whom the whole body" -- there is a reference to unity -- "joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up" -- edification -- "in love as each part does its work."

There is a pattern here: an A-B-C, C-B-A pattern, an inverted parallelism. Results occur when the gifted men do their work in the church and then the saints do their job of the work in the ministry. Here are the results: edification (the reference to being built up in verse 12, unity (verse 13, our concern right now), and maturity (later on in verse 13). Then the reverse order is maturity (in verse 15, "growing up"), unity (I see that in a reference to the whole body joined and held together by each supporting ligament. It is the members doing their job contributing to the unity of the whole and then the sequence is completed). A, B, C, then C (grow up/maturity), B (unity), and A (edification as each part grows and builds itself up in love and each part does its work). It is beautiful, but it is too much information since this is not a class on Ephesians. But for now, the seven great objective unities of the church in verses 4-6 are surrounded by appeals that believers are to work hard at unity in their lives. That is, we are not just to take our ease and say, "Oh, great, God has it all taken care of. I can relax." No, God has it all taken care of, and let us get busy and do His will. On the other hand, it is not, "We better pull our load or the whole thing is going to come crashing down." No, our subjective efforts are not the basis. It is the seven unities that nobody can touch. Those seven unities ought to move us to go ahead and increase our own peace-making activities, if you will, within the body of Christ. The practical ramifications are more than we have time to talk about.

Divisions in the local church obscure the church's unity. The book of 1 Corinthians is a document in point concerning this. Friends, let us not kid ourselves. The sources of divisions in your local church are present in your heart and mine. In fact, divisions are in everybody's heart all the time because we are all sinners. Martin Luther was right. There are two types of people in the world and they are both sinners: unforgiven sinners and forgiven sinners. So, the seeds of disunity for your marriage -- I do not mean to be negative here -- your family, your church, your neighborhood, and so on and so forth, are in all of our hearts. We should be more grateful for the restraining work of God, the Holy Spirit, in society. He keeps all of these things from exploding. Divisions in the church mar the church's unity and we ought not be the cause of these things.

Read Philippians 2:6 and following sometime in this context where Christ is the example of humility. That is God's way to promote unity in the congregation. A further application is that bad attitudes toward other Christians hurt the church's witness, according to John 17. They are going to know the Father sent the Son by the love we show for each other. We do not always do a very good job of that. I have heard Christians say these words and I am going to name some names and fill in the blank to make it real. Here is a person with a real commitment to the Reformed faith: "What do I have in common with an Arminian?" Well, if an Arminian is in Christ, all you have in common is the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, and salvation. "Wait a minute," they say, "I believe very differently than they do in many points." That is fine, and you have a right to do that. You may even feel absolutely obligated in God's truth to do that, but we are talking about the unity of the Christian church and that is part of God's truth too. Bad attitudes toward other Christians do not commend God's truth to anybody. As a matter a fact, if you look at it the way the world does, you would look at the attitude to try to judge the truth. Now, that is not the right way to do it. We judge the truth based on the Word, but we need to live out the truth. How about this example: here is a devout and charismatic believer who says, "What do I have in common with those anti-charismatics?" You have the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and the Lord Jesus. I have seen it the other way with nasty, hateful attitudes toward charismatics, lumping them with cultists with one swoop. It is dishonoring to the Lord. It is dishonoring to Christ, who prayed, died, and rose again to accomplish the unity of His church. Am I throwing all doctrinal distinctive to the wind? I am not. I am saying that the Bible teaches the unity of the church. It tells us to make every effort, to be diligent to foster that unity in the bond of peace. That starts in our hearts and we are like little pebbles in a pond. If all 40 of us drop our little pebble in, it has to do some good. We communicate attitudes to our disciples, to the people we teach in our Sunday school classes, to the people in our churches, and to our children. Where do people learn racism? Where do they learn that these people are not as good as we are because they baptize differently or because they have a different form of church government and their chart of future things is different than ours? We really need to do some repenting, I think. What do I have in common with other Christians? Everything.

That is my basis. That is my starting point. In terms of fellowship, oh yes, I have doctrinal distinctives, but I do not wear them on my sleeves. And although I believe in the five points of Calvinism, they are not my basis for personal fellowship. What I have in common with other Christians, in a word, is the Lord Jesus Christ who commands me in Romans 15:17. He commanded the believers in Rome, and by application all believers, to "accept one another then, just as Christ accepted you." Paul was writing to a divided church; the Jewish and Gentile Christians were at each other's throats. Well, I cannot turn away another believer in Christ. If the person believes there are errors in the Bible, that is a serious problem. That is going to manifest itself in lots of ways in their thinking and living. What do I have in common with them? If that person knows Christ, you have Christ in common, and the way to help the person is not to reject him or her but to love him and extend the hand of fellowship. Where do they get the idea that fundamentalists, evangelicals, Bible-believing Christians, whatever name you want, are nasty? I will tell you where they got it: sometimes we are nasty, and we are nasty in the name of the truth and that is not right.

Do our lives promote unity? Or is our secret goal, our unstated goal, to make divisions and to gather disciples around ourselves? It ought not be. I have been asked, "What about Christians being excommunicated?" Maybe they are not Christians in that case, at least that was the decision of a particular group of leaders who worked with them and prayed with them over a period of time and saw no repentance and finally put them out. What do I say about those people going down the street and being accepted without question into another church on good standing? I say shame on us for not working together and believing that pastors need to work together. For one thing, you really do not want the other people's problem in your church. And more importantly, you want to help the people. So, if they come in and you ask, "Where have you been?" "I was over at this other church." Call the pastor; you ought to have a working relationship anyway, and ask, "What is the scoop here? Is everything all right? Is there some way I need to help these people?" That is your goal, because people can flee discipline too easily. Do you understand? We can be too interested in sheep and numbers rather than in helping people. I believe the Lord will honor us if we honor Him and do what is right. That is part of the unity of the church. "But they are a different denomination than we are. They are Baptist and we are Presbyterians." Well, you are both believers in Christ, and if we work together better, we would help people better. They should not be able to flee discipline since the purpose is to help them, glorify God, and purify the church. None of those things are being accomplished if they can flee from it so easily. Sometimes it is because we have built walls dividing ourselves from other believers.

I have been asked, "In reality, is there very much cooperation among pastors across denominational lines?" I see more of it and I am glad for it. I see pastors of different backgrounds meeting together just because they need it. Many times they feel lonely so they meet together to pray. The Lord seems to have poured the Holy Spirit out in a city in California. I forget which one it was. Here is the background of it: The Lord convicted the pastors when they were divided against each other. They said, "Look, let us gather to pray and heal this thing." A couple of years later, the Lord converted one fourth of the city through a play about heaven and hell. I read about this in Christianity Today. People just kept coming into the church every night and 25% of the city made professions of faith. Now, they are all busy disciplining because they gave God the glory and He sovereignly did it. But, the Lord had created the proper atmosphere for this kind of thing to happen because they were busy praying instead of fighting each other.

Yes, I see hope. I see hope in terms of attitudes. I see it in our own seminary life with students from different backgrounds first of all embracing each other in Christ regardless of distinctive, and then, of course, finding their own place in the body of Christ. So yes, I think there is a lot of hope. Is there still too much division? Yes, of course. I admit that as well.

The sanctity, or holiness, of the Christian church is another attribute. These things are pretty important, are they not? Sanctification, contrary to the popular notion, is not nearly progressive. It is progressive, but it is also initial and final. Look at 2 Thessalonians 2:13. Let me give you three proof passages and I will just touch lightly on them. Sanctification is initial or definitive (2 Thessalonians 2:13). Sanctification is progressive or ongoing (1 Thessalonians 4:3). Sanctification is final and complete (1 Thessalonians 5:23). This is not the time to teach these things. This occurs in the course before this one, but in order for me to demonstrate what I am claiming here, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says, "But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved." Have you thanked God for the election of anybody lately? Well, it is biblical.

God chose you to be saved "through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth." Because the Spirit's sanctifying work here precedes belief in the truth, it looks to me very much like it is initial, or definitive, as it is sometimes called. I have heard the term "positional" sanctification. It is that setting apart by the Spirit that is in conjunction with saving faith in the first place. So, sanctification, God setting us apart unto holiness, is once and for all. The word "saint" comes out of this type of thing. We are called saints in this definitive, initial sense. Sanctification is also progressive. In 1 Thessalonians 4:3 Paul says, "It is God's will that you be sanctified." A little more literally, "This is the will of God, your sanctification." And then it goes on and tells what that entails: "that you should abstain from [avoid] sexual immorality." This is not initial sanctification otherwise it would be teaching that we clean ourselves up in order to win God's favor. Do you understand? No, it is lifelong or progressive sanctification that follows our initial salvation, a practical growth in holiness. As to the final sanctification, near the end of 1 Thessalonians 5:23 it says, "May God Himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and though. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ." That speaks of entire sanctification. The time frame is this: it will happen when Jesus comes again. How can we be sure of it? Verse 24 tells us that "the One who calls you is faithful and he will do it."

So sanctification is initial. It is ongoing. It is final and perfect. In that light, we look at John 17:17-19. Let us go from verse 17 backward: "'For them,' Jesus said, 'I sanctify Myself that they too may be truly sanctified.'" Here we have two different uses of "sanctify" in the same verse. There is a connection between Jesus' sanctification and that of His people, but there is a difference. We needed to be sanctified in that we were unclean. We needed to be made holy and right. He was not unclean. He was not a sinner. His sanctification is a consecration unto the priesthood. It is Him sanctifying Himself unto His great, high priestly ministry and I do not mean the prayer, which it could be called. That is okay. We can call it the high priestly prayer of Christ, but I mean His high, priestly ministry on the cross in which He offered Himself once and for all.

"Father, for them," -- "for them" in this context means the people you have given me, the people of God -- "I sanctify myself." Here is the purpose of Jesus' consecration as High Priest, "that they too may be truly sanctified." Jesus here prays for the sanctification of His church. He more than prays for it, He accomplishes it as well. Verse 17 is where he prays, "Sanctify them by the truth. Your word is truth." He prays here for the sanctification of the church and the means that God would use -- that He wants God to use. That is the spoken or preached Word, but of course that also implies the written Word.

In John 14-16, Jesus had just spoken of what we could call the preauthentication of the New Testament as He promised to send the Spirit. He and the Father would send the Spirit to remind the disciples what He had taught them, to teach them new things to come, and to guide them into all truth. Ephesians 5, likewise, speaks of the sanctity of the Christian church. It also, in a similar way to John 17, ties it to the work of Christ. It is Jesus' death and resurrection that accomplishes sanctification. In the context of commanding husbands to love their wives, Paul says, "Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy." -- I think that might be a reference to initial or definitive sanctification. I cannot prove it, but it may be so. The next two I am more sure of -- "cleansing her by the washing with water through the word." That is like John 17; in fact, things here have been like John 17. Jesus said, "I sanctify myself that they might be sanctified." He goes as High Priest to cleanse the church. Here, Christ loved the church. What did He do? He acted in love. Love is not just an emotion. It is a biblical action. It is an emotion too, but it is not just an emotion. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. So it is His death that is given for the purpose of sanctifying the church. Notice the means again, just like in John 17: "Sanctify them by your word, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word." This cleansing speaks of progressive sanctification. I think that is fair to say. Ephesians 5:27 takes us onto final sanctification: "...and to present her to himself as a radiant church without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless." That is not your local church or mine. Someone might say, "I am looking for the perfect church." Another guy says, "Well, when you find it and joint it, it will not be perfect anymore." That is the truth. But the goal of Christ's atonement was to present the church like that unto Himself. That gives us great hope because you and I and your church and mine are going to make it by God's grace. Christ's death will avail and although the church at present has a few stains and wrinkles, the time is going to come when she will need no more medicine. The Lord is going to perfectly present His spotless bride. I think you get the picture.

The practical ramifications of the sanctity, or holiness, of the Christian church again are too numerous. But I will mention a few. This is important in the area of church membership. We should insist that initial sanctification is essential. That is, we only admit saints. The church is not merely a country club or a social group. There is a problem in that elders or other leaders are unable to see perfectly the hearts of others. So then, we talk about a credible, believable profession of faith. Sometimes we make mistakes, but at least we have to try. We need to ask the people the Gospel and try to ascertain their basic life. If it is terrible, then there is a problem because initial sanctification is essential for church membership. The sanctity of the church also has implications for the church's third mark of discipline. Church discipline is important for the sanctity of the church. Show me a church that struggles to apply biblical discipline and I will show you a church that has a chance of being holy. Show me a church that has given up the whole task. It is difficult. It is easier just to let it ride. You are going to ruffle feathers and upset people. For example, an upset man might say, "Who do you think you are not marrying my daughter to that guy?" The pastor replies, "I cannot marry your daughter to that man. I believe your daughter knows the Lord, but he does not. It is plain to see. I would be unfaithful to my calling as a minister of the Gospel to do that." "Well then," the man says, "we are taking our money and going down the street, and they are going to do it for us." It should not be that way. The pastor should communicate that he cannot marry them because the Bible forbids the marriage of believers and unbelievers, as we know.

Church discipline is important for the sanctity of the church. Show me a church with no discipline and I will show you an unholy church. It is unavoidable in its doctrine and, sooner or later, in its life as well. The Lord knows what His church needs.

Let me ask a question. Do our ministries in the church promote unity? Is the result of your ministry a fostering of love for Christ and God and a love for other Christians, whatever their strife? That is one test, though not the only test in the world. But if our ministries are breeding strife and if they believe they are the great ones and everybody needs to be like them, then something is wrong there.

Do our ministries promote holiness? Do they promote a seeking of the Lord, confession of sin, and practical growth in grace and holiness? If they do not, then I am not sure whose business we are about. The Lord's business is to promote holiness. Even truth can be taught in the wrong way. It could be taught as an end in itself -- as if kids giving you all the right answers is all that is necessary. We want them to have right answers rather than wrong answers, but if we teach it in the correct way, their hearts will be engaged as well their heads. A better way to say it is that their heads will really be engaged. Their whole lives will be affected. We need to ask ourselves some basic questions. Are our ministries promoting godliness? If not, there is a problem somewhere with our ministries.

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